by Kerri-Jo Stewart: the International Akhal-Teke Horse Association meeting on October 27th, 2011 at the Turkmen Atlary in Ashgabat, Turkmenistan.

The results of the meeting were that the letter was drafted to commence the blood and DNA testing of all the Akhal-Teke horses in Turkmenistan and was signed by all present. Dr. Ryabova has already begun taking the samples.

The following are my notes from the meeting and all errors and mistakes are mine from either my transcription or else my interpretation:

Tatiana Ryabova (VNIIK, Russia):

We care about breed, need to gather and discuss hot problems.
The most urgent being tbe genetic correction of the registration, especially Turkmenistan because they have not been properly tested.
In 2009 I was first invited to Turkmenistan and asked to address this problem, some work has been done but it has not been completely successful in resolving this problem, we still have much work to do.

I take it as my personal problem because for the past three years I have not accomplished what I wanted. Is it personal distrust? Why there is no formal agreement? The work is going slowly with no cooperation.
I want to hear why there is any distrust and personal complaints about my work and also the Horse Breeding Institute.
What are the problems? Please address them to me here.
I hope to meet with new minister to obtain his views.
Here I want form Turkmen breeders and participants as I want to address this gap in the registration of Turkmen horses.

This work is complicated because the descendents of these horses are not available, nor any genetic material, up to three prior generations. Up to the year 2000 the material was given to the Institute of horse breeding so there is availability to do some analysis, and some stallions that are still there the RI has their biologic material. These horses have been tested by blood typing and also by DNA testing.

There is a big group of horses that has at least one grandparent who hasn’t been tested so we need to use the genetic analysis and figure out with our best ability to do so.
We need to decide whether to include or exclude this group within the purebred registry.

Second group: some info lacking but we don’t want to exclude them automatically as their genetic material is valuable… we can’t automatically exclude, with international commission we need to take each horse on case by case basis and let an international commission decide.

There is a third group where there is a very strong belief that they are definitely mixed with English Thoroughbred so they can’t be registered as purebred under any circumstances.
It is with the third group of horses that much analytical analysis needs to be done.

I would like to show this certificate that shows that results of comparison tests and levels of purity at VNIIK; the Turkmen lab is starting to work but they still haven’t carried out any testing and we can’t use the results because the liability hasn’t been tested by stuff so we have to work with our lab in our own institute.
This second document is the certification of registry of breeding material.
I want to emphasize that the Russian institute of horse breeding is audited and properly set up and supervised.

The VNIIK Akhal-Teke department has selection and breeding plans for every 10 years. In 2010 the current program the plan expired and now the plan is drafted for the next 10 years and we want to present the plans at the conference in April.

At this moment there is nothing about the Turkmen horses in this breeding plan but we need to develop a special subchapter for the breed once this information is available and approved by the labs.
We need to encourage other regions of the world to make more expedient testing so institute has current and full information to develop this plan.

First we discuss what is happening in Turkmenistan and later we discuss what happens at another point.

Now with that introduction I would like to hear your opinions on how the breed should be developed and carried forward.

Discussion:

The suggestion was to first agree on agenda and who proposes to discuss what for this meeting.

Zhanibek Irgebayev (Kazakstan): Report what has been done by the IAHTA over the past year.

Tatiana: the person who has developed the program, Akhmed, is director of new hippodrome so he is busy and not available for a report. So the large scope that it isn’t realistic to discuss the implementation of this area and we can’t any ways as he isn’t here to do so

Zhanibek: Maybe Kerim can be representative of Turkmen Atlary and can shed some light on the program

The program that was signed by the president in April was adopted by the entire year so hopefully something will happen, but Tatiana wants more productive discussion.

(Ukraine): thinks we need to discuss problems and address Tatiana would be most productive

Tatiana: We can’t have a discussion of this program as she doesn’t know about it and hasn’t had discussion with Akhmed to know
The items of this program haven’t been assigned to any direct person so if we can’t discuss it we can’t blame any individual.

So one particular item that was brought to attention was in collecting information about Akhal-Tekes throughout the world.
-The discussion is to publish a studbook but it isn’t practical to do now.
-There was an item to do website, there is no information to whether this has been done
-There was an item about having some equestrian sport events, maybe tomorrow we can see if something is in place when we go to the hippodrome as they have a covered arena

My personal comment on the agenda is that the agenda was a too ambitious program for one year

Tatiana has made recommendations but the president hasn’t taken them into their program.

Alexander Klimuk (Russia): Maybe we should not discuss so much about association and focus on Turkmenistan and the excellent selections here and how we can work to preserve the genetic population here.
We all share views that this excellent genetic material should be preserved properly. It is an important population.
I believe this is the main goal of this association and for us at these meetings
and I believe the most important goal is simply to have tests on all horses in Turkmenistan in a lab, both genetic and blood.
How we can be useful after this has been achieved.
After these objective testing results have been attained then the world group can be useful.

I would like to emphasize that that is step two, we must first accomplish this first step and decide on the other problems later.
My main point that I would like to make very clear
I would like our hospitable hosts, not only important to the association but also breeders

Zhanibek: Regardless about what has beens said about program
The first item is to test entire population of Turkmenistan
How many horses tested over past 6 months?

Tatiana: I have not always had full cooperation (Akmed gives full help with all information, but he is only one breeder)

In 2011 spring Tatiana arrived a month early to collect material for the test and then they said it must not be done, as stated by previous head of Turkmen Atlary.

Zhanibek is asking who is to blame that no material was collected?
It is the program
He believes that the program says that horses should be tested, it has been adopted and signed by the president so it must be done. President expressly asked Tatiana Nikolia to preform tests, so it should be fulfilled.
The first thing is probably that something perhaps asking president to interfere in this problem
Zhanibek would like this association to be useful and not like the others that have been created and died, lets do something to make it happen.

Turkmen breeder: So lets not look backwards but forwards
As of today 400 horses have been tested and the material collected.
The ministers of Turkmenistan are interested in the pureblood status of their horses so lets move this forward as the breeders are interested in their horses being tested.
The new minister is interested in this being done and a lot of breeders have given material.

However, Tatiana says that Kossomol and the presidents stables haven’t given material (it is not clear whether they are disputing what Tatiana said – I think they are) and get instructions from minister and we agree that we are ready to give both blood and DNA for testing.
So lets not dwell on issue on issue of whether they need to be tested but on how to get the testing.

Dr. Jalil Ghiadi (Iran): I think all of us need a good high quality and approved solution. Mr. Nejati, our geneticist in Iran and working internationally, has a good idea for solution to our problem. I am sure that we all agree that Tatiana is very hard working and appreciation for her work, but science is developing daily and Mr. Nejati will explain the material shortly.

Dr. Nejati (Iran): I have had the chance to speak with many members of delegations from many countries and that there is general agreement of what to do with horses in general. Consensus is nice to see. A few years ago it was hard to convince people to do genetic testing, but there is fast increase in technology and yest and today had good meetings and happy to see that they are looking progressively at what needs to be done.

In this association we should learn from experiences that have other breeds, not just horses, and learn from other fields. I’m happy to see everyone pushing forward to do genetic tests for turkmen horses; however these past tests are old technology; they were useful in the past to show ambiguities, but are outdated now.

We have access to new advanced tests, and they are cost effective. We can test 1000s of loci and we can access information from all chromosomes so we can trace all parts of the genome several generations back. We can use these tests to identify disease and create specific phenotypes through specific breedings.

Associations can have access from all different countries, samples can be sent to different labs throughout the world, all with the same system.
Have same sample, genetic consensus, have genotypes available and accessible to everyone, then if any verification is needed in future it is easy to do.
Also do not think just for parentage tests, but also to use it to improve economic characteristics of the breed to compete with other breeds.

Tatiana: The comment from Dr. Nejati is very interesting and we would like to know more of that, and we would like to send some information to the institute.

another comment: but how many labs in the world can do these tests and what is the cost to the owner?

Dr. Nejati: many labs can do tests and the procedure is common and robotized
Filomeno is an american company and they sell throughout the world, geneotyping standard tests for plants, animals
snip chip uses 50,000 loci, versus the 15 or 17 loci test
the cost is about $200 per horse, 5 years ago it was several thousand
but you need to make the comparison comparison, its $40 to test for 17 loci, $200 to test for 50,000
I’m not specializing in horse breeding, I’m a geneticist
We have discovered area of “fat tail” sheep, we pinpointed the genes point so we are going to take the fat tail out of the breed. It is routine.
On the website of USDA you will see that since 2009 it is a routine test.
Using snip chip genotyping for is also the standard for testing of bulls.

Zhanibek: disagreeing but not translated

Klimuk: Is appreciating that it is a very interesting method and we believe in the future it may be interesting for our breed but we should not lose the focus of today’s agenda as it is a goal that is much simpler… this is interesting but we should let other breed of horses use this testing as we are breeding pureblood horses and we should be careful and absolutely sure about this testing as we have a responsibility for breeding real pureblood horses.

Dr. Nejati: The equine 50K gene, the Akhal-Teke would not be first one to use this testing

Some audience members state it is equitable to horses

Zhanibek: insists that we do develop a list of breeding farms that have not allowed for collection of biological samples and so that they are required to correct their behaviour or leave the membership.

Tatiana and Zhanibek are arguing, it is not translated.

Kerim Basimov (Turkmen Atlary, Turkmenistan) suggests to postpone the discussion of whether certain breeders have done testing

Zhanibek: and if those breeders don’t submit the biological samples by April 2012 then there is no alternative to kicking them out of the association.
We own horses that have doubtful status – we must make sure our horses are equally pureblood.
Zhanibek is a member of the auditing commission so this is a very important point.
This is important as it has been endorsed by the president.
He must try to push the issue so that he doesn’t go to jail.
Since we are talking off-record and we need to discuss them now as when it is an official meeting in April

Second : website
Kerim dais that the website has been created and is ready and promises a link soon and will E-mail it to everyone.

The reports about equestrian events
Zhanibek: are there any equestrian events that have been reported?

European championship, Uzbekistan championship, worlds, Russian, not strictly equestrian events and all events should have been reported by association

Zhanibek believes there should be more reporting of events in media, not just internet but brought to more general public

Klimuk suggests we should address the problem of poor performance in collecting biological material – draft a letter to Turkmen Atlary and we sign it to move it forward
Zhanibek is repeating his request for person responsible in association who doesn’t agree

(unfortunately the Russian isn’t all translated to English so the discussion btwn Zhanibek, the Tukmen breeder and Tatiana is unknown to me)

Zhanibek: Turkmen Atlary it is the program – insists that there should be a specific person responsible for each part of program and specifically the collection of biological material

Tatiana: makes a point that in 2010 she had 2 assistants from the Atlary and she doesn’t know where the collected material ended up
Zhanibek insists that 5 people should be in the commission that takes biological materials

Kerim states that the Atlary will send collected material to VNIIK, that they will be making collections.

Zhanibek insists on personal names of people collecting samples; they have shipped 149 samples and the blood was spoiled, who was responsibility for handling the samples and who is responsibility for those being spoiled? He wants specific names to question the individuals.

The Turkmen breeder says something…

Kerim: Why you don’t trust us, why you trust the others?

Tatiana: Speaking about distrust, in 2010 there were representatives of the Turkmen Atlary that were present and the material was tested and they sent the information.
In 2012 the Turkmen Atlary will retest horses that were tested last year, including those horses that were confirmed by VNIIK to have verified parentage.
The turkmen lab has rechecked horses and they state that the parentage is not confirmed.

The letter should be as follows: immediate testing should be started by VNIIK and that the testing be done by both blood and DNA testing
Drafting of this letter should be done by Kerim and we will sign it and Alexander Stephanich should also participate in drafting this letter.

All raise their hands in favour of signing this letter. Kerri-Jo, why are you abstaining?

Kerri-Jo Stewart (Canada): I agree with letter in principle but why should we designate it to be sent only to Russian lab?
What about discrepancies? How can it be the exclusive lab?
I won’t sign letter that restricts sending blood only to one specific laboratory.

Tatiana: The Russian lab is recognized by ASAC and the Turkmen lab isn’t recognized.

Kerim: making a point that if they have a live stallion, mare, foal that they send blood to any lab with a clear identification.

Jessica Eile Keith (USA): We must realize the consequences of writing a letter forcing everyone to register horse. I don’t think it is a correct way to force people, there does need to be a free will.

Zhanibek: All Akhal-Teke horses should be tested so we have the data available, but he doesn’t believe that in this situation with all Akhal-Tekes it should be ok even though choice is important. Every Akhal-Teke has to be tested.

Nourlan Mamyrov (Kyrgyzstan): The first thing is that no one has a program and that is problem.
He can detect that there is not a good understanding of the issues faced by the English portion of the conference, so he asked for time to explain issues (he speaks in Russian)

1. We need to define agenda and procedure for future meetings
2. Most important is that we all be provided with material beforehand, what idea do the English portion have of the agenda?

Lets start with basic procedures and structure and this stems from general lack of communication in the organization to the membership.
Our meeting cannot be considered a board meeting he suggests that we need outcome and goals, and that letter needs to be written to ensure outcome of collection of biological material.

Kerim: It’s not an official meeting, and so this is why we don’t have agenda nor procedures, but we will have for the real yearly meeting in April.
He will take issues into consideration for next meeting.
He thanks everyone for coming to celebrate Turkmenistan’s independence.

Of primary importance is the verification of parentage by DNA. The IATHA is currently working with a French laboratory for DNA analysis.

The main goal of the IATHA is to ensure and preserve the purity of Akhal-Teke horses as well as promote the breed throughout the world. The association will also maintain records of individual horses, organize international equestrian sports, increase the number of elite bred Akhal-Teke horses, as well as raise educational levels and increase the knowledge of both trainers and riders.

Individual IATHA membership application form
Association IATHA membership application form

Inspection results include: measurements, type, conformation, and preferably the movements. The judge grades a horse “as-is”, how the horse looks at that moment when they are inspected.

For example in 2009: Gerald 7,0 – 9,0 160-168-183-20,0

Below is the file with Grading that Tatiana made after the Inspection. Among other horses you can see Gerald: prearranged 1 class 1 Category

The Grading includes:
1.parentage (includes all the relatives with their results)
2. type
3. measurements
4. working-sportive ability (includes participation in championship, show, movements, etc)
5. Quality of the foals.

Because Gerald was young than (2006) he could not show his sportive results, nor could he show his foals results and his parentage wasn’t set as his sire Arim wasn’t yet graded as a breeding stallion (a stallion can get grades as a breeding stud after ten foals on the ground).

Now in 2011 Gerald’s type has improved and he competes in sport and does a lot of showing. Arim has also been graded as a very good breeding stud (he already has 10 foals on ground and they are very high level) so parentage of Gerald will go higher, his sportive ability will go much higher, and his class and categories could change a lot. Next time he will be graded higher.

Sometimes it happens that a horse who was very good as a filly or a colt became worse than they were as a foal. For example, Enchik who was a champion, and he is still very-very typey, didn’t grow much, and his class and category came very down.

When Dr. Riabova makes an Inspection tour she grades sometimes a horse different a bit to compare to the last time. A horse may not be feeling well or injured, lost weight, etc.) But as usual it’s all the same.

She NEVER makes differences between America, Europe, Russia or Turkmenistan horses…

But, if you see a horse, and you know that his type is around 7.0 – you sometimes write 6.9 and sometimes 7.0 !!!!

Congratulations to Jim and Connie Rawski of Canadian Endurance near Toronto Ontario for their purchase of Darius (Arim-Doba) and Hasil (Arim-Hrizantema). I’m excited that they have bought these fine yearlings as they are Canadian now!

Although I think they would make superb eventing horses the Rawskis are very well known in Canada for their success in endurance. I’m sure both will be top athletes in no time with the Rawskis training them. Now we just have to be patient while they grow up!

from Cathy Leddy: She’ll be in Seattle Friday, March 4th, and we have some outside horses coming to be graded. Everyone is welcome -it’s just been such short notice that we haven’t had time to publicize it. There will be a master class sometime during the day and a buffet style dinner. She heads up to the San Juans on Saturday to Sweet Water Farm.